Monday, August 25, 2008
QQ and JJ Preflop
What is the correct way to play hands like QQ and JJ preflop. I have been losing most of my big hands with these two hands. My idea is I need to get them all in before the flop hits, as the odds will decrease as the hand progresses. I am being crushed by AK even though I believe with QQ the odds are 57% in my favor it doesn't seem that way. What's your idea on QQ and JJ? I usually 3 bet it before the flop off a raise to try and take it down there, should I just be calling?
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I've had some pretty good win percentages with QQ an JJ...85% and 80% respectively. But, I've lost bigger hands with JJ so I'm trying to be more careful when playing them. When I play both hands the biggest factor that comes into play is position. With Queens, all 6 of my losses were when I was out of position and only 2 in 6 went to a showdown:
1. First guy made a position bet with K/6o and called my SB 3 bet and c-bet and chased a K high flush on turn (I had Q high flush).
2. The other time the button raised 4xBB and I called in SB. Flop hit a K and I checked. He bet, I called and turn came an A. We checked to river and he had A/J. I know all the mistakes I made here but it was when I got Poker Tracker but hadn't started playing aggressive yet.
The other times that did not go to showdown I made a couple misteps:
1. Didn't re-raise in SB when a position raise was made and then the BB 3-bet the pot and I called. Low cards hit (J/4/3) and I c-bet the flop but was re-raised all in. I couldn't tell if he was bluffing, maybe on flush draw since 2 were suited, hit trip jacks, had aces or kings....so I folded.
2. I was in CO and raised 5xBB ($2.50) with caller in front and was re-raised by button to $8 and I just called. Flop came all hearts with a K. I had the Qh but I checked. Button bet half the pot and I called. Flop came a 7 non-heart and I checked again and button went all in and I folded. Here I'm not sure if I should've re-raised again preflop and then went all in on the flop or if i should've made the first c-bet after the flop out of position.
3. Again, in SB with UTG raising 4xBB and I only call. I should've raised but I tend to get cautious in SB. Flop came and I c-bet and was raised. I called and checked the turn and he bet again pretty big so I folded. I'm thinking since I didn't reraise PF I should've checked the flop and tried to see the turn and river cheaply without agitating the other player.
Those are some of my loss examples with Queens and Jacks are usually similar circumstances with bigger losses and I'm even more cautious. Any advice on these starting hands would be appreciated...good request SmaK!
Yep QQ and JJ are ugly hands after the flop. The only time this is not really true is when the flop contains low cards. Holliday hit some points about having the villain (Jerick's word) define their hand pre-flop. If the raise is from LP then definitely raise your SB or BB and try to take it down right there. If you get a re-raise, you have to let the hand go unless the villain plays reckless and way aggressive. At that point you are pretty much going all-in and hoping for a medium pair. If the villain just calls pre-flop, make your C-bet (70% of the pot) on the flop. If you don't hit the set and they call or raise, then you are basically giving the hand up at this point. Especially when you are out of position. You'll have to check it down for the most part.
It's unfortunate that bad players overplay their AK and usually QQ & JJ yield small pots and lose big ones if you are not careful.
Maybe we're leaving out one point to be discussed and it's one I need to brush up on: What are the odds that you have QQ or JJ and villian has a higher pocket pair? I went back over the hands I've lost with QQ and the only reason I folded was because the villian represented a higher boarded pair. He didn't necessarily have it. Twice I lost with JJ where the villian had a higher pokcet pair but the BIG losses were to donkeys getting lucky.
I think if there's a raise PF you need to re-raise with JJ, QQ, KK, AA, A/K suited. If you get re-raised I'd re-raise with QQ, KK, AA and call with JJ, A/Ks.
Depending if the flop helped your A/K or jacks would depend on how you play out the rest of the hand.
If the flop comes low cards with QQ, KK, AA, or A/K I'd be betting if acting first or re-raising if acting second with QQ, KK, or AA. I'd be slightly cautious with face cards hitting the board in case you have an overpair and someone else hit a set. But if you have a set it's full steam ahead.
If I missed with my A/K I'll call a reasonable bet to see the turn and an aggressive bet on a draw. But if it's checked to me or I think the villian is betting at a draw I'll re-raise because I've already represented a high pocket pair with my PF raising.
If the PF raising still gets the villian to the flop and there's an overcard I'll still bet into it and if I get called I'll check the turn. If it's checked to me I'm betting it and same if there's a call.
Aside of figuring out the odds villian has a better hand, I'd say knowing how solid villian is would be 2nd most important. If the flop comes down and there's an A on the board your kings may look finished...or are they? I've re-raised bets to me with an overcard and took the pot down because I represented the higher kicker, set, 2 pair, etc. Just because there's an A and villian has one doesn't mean they'll call it down everytime.
Thoughts?
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