What's up guys?
Well, it's been over 2000 hands in the last 2 days so I was bound to run into some donkwork. However, I'm not here to complain about how a bad player got lucky with a poor hand but rather to share my unfortunate experience and discuss options on how to minimize any future losses. In fact, since I lost the maximum on the hand then it doesn't matter how bad the other player was...there's always a way I could've made my play better. I had a few bad beats in the last couple days (and thousands playing the last couple years) but this one in particular urked me. I'll play the hand out first and then evaulate.
I'm playing $0.25/0.50 short-handed NLHE and all the stacks are within $10 (up or down) of the $50 max buy-in. The entire table, with the exception of myself, has started to play pretty loose the last 10-20 minutes and making bad plays to catch cards. I'm in the SB with 10h/10c. Everyone folds to the cut-off who calls the BB and the button folds to me. The BB was playing extremely loose (around VP50) and the CO was around VP35. I raise 4xBB to $2, the BB calls $1.50 and the CO calls $1.50. Flop comes down 2d/9h/9s. The pot is now $6. I'm first to act betting $3.50 with the BB calling and the CO folding. The pot is now $13 and the turn comes 2s. I bet $6.50 and the BB goes all in $30.90 making the pot $50.40. It costs me another $24.40 and I make the call. The turn comes 8d and he shows down 8h/2c...his boat beats my 2 pair.
Thinking about the hand afterwards I was able to pick out what mistakes I made throughout the hand but it becomes even more clear when I review the playback and actually write it down (everyone should be using the playback feature frequently...it's extremely helpful). Here's my analysis:
1. I'm playing $0.25/0.50...a breeding ground for donkeys. Kevin made mention in the 2nd Vid post that he can't imagine playing with that much money as Jerrick was. I've played up to $5/$10 back in Feb. when I was kicking some ass and my bankroll was up a few thousand and it's definitely a different game. With this style of play I think it's even easier to play higher limits. Being able to balance this style with how people play in lower limits is difficult but will hopefully make us better in the long run. I should've kept this in mind in addition to the cards in my hand and on the board.
2. I'm in the SB with loose players and will be first to act. I probably should've raised more preflop...maybe to $3 in hopes to get the rif raf out or take the pot down right there.
3. I should've bet more on the flop. I think $5 would've been a better bet than the $3.50. The $3.50 might have indicated to the other players that I've only got high cards or might be worried about the two 9's in the board. A $5 bet may have eliminated those thoughts and won the pot.
4. I should've checked the turn knowing anyone holding a 9 or 2 has me beat. Loose players will call with any two cards in hopes to get lucky. Since I ended up betting instead and the BB went all in, I concluded he didn't have a 9. Otherwise, he most likely would've just called to extract as much as possible from me until the river. At the same time, he's concluded I don't have a 9 because of my $6.50 bet and figures his 2's full are good...so he pushes.
5. I call the all in raise. With all the other factors up until this point I should've laid my hand down for a couple reasons. First, I was only getting 2-1 on my money. It was costing me $24.40 to win $50.40. Maybe if it was 4-1 or higher odds the call would've been justified but 2-1 is way too low. Second, it's a cash game and I can wait to make my play with better hands or more certainty. Knowing when to lay a hand down is equally as important as knowing when to play a hand. I should've cut my losses and moved on to the next hand.
6. I went on tilt and made a dumb play the next hand. I should've just sat out to review the hand or left alltogether and reviewed it later when I was a little more clear-headed. Instead, I pushed my remaining $12 after an early position raise with K/T and lost to A/Q. Needless to say I was finished for the evening.
When I go back and think about it, this was a great lesson to learn; you can only control what moves you make to hopefully reduce the stupid plays someone else makes. People are still going to make stupid plays (or what you think was a stupid play) no matter what you do...at which point you can only minimize your losses.
By the way, some heated discussion followed the hand between myself and the BB. He said the reason he called my PF raise and flop bet was because the last time he folded a deuce he would've hit 3 of a kind deuces on the river and won a big hand. Pretty poor reasoning to play a hand in any half decent poker player's book. Still, I'm not sure that even if I had made the proper play up until the point of him hitting his boat would I have been able to win the hand. My pocket tens could've been dead from the start given his reasoning. Obviously, I wasn't folding them. But, instead of playing to win I should've been playing to lose as little as possible.
Thoughts?
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3 comments:
I think you identified eveyyhing here that you did wrong the pot odds being the largest and in time you will be able to identify when they made the hands or if they have air. It's tough cause if you always fold a lot of people will walk over you, biggest thing is try to predict ahead of time and anticipate them shoving. If the pot odds were different and he went all in quickly, I may have called as well. I had the same issue AAQQ vs AA99 and the guy went all in, then comes the river a 9...
Excellent post; welcome to the blog. I think you made an excellent analysis of your game play. I whole heartedly agree that the hand replayer is very key to identify mistakes. The flaws in your play are minor but usually end up fataly wounding your stack when playing against loose weak players. A few other tips if I may, your pre-flop raise was a bit weak for being out of position and for one limper. You should have bet at least 5BB maybe even 6BB. When the flop hits you still have to make your c-bet (continuation bet) for 75% of the pot. The turn is where I often make the same mistakes as you. If the player calls your c-bet with a paired flop, they usually have hit at least a pair already, if not the set. In either case, bad players don't usually make you pay them off appropriately. I think the correct move is to check the turn. If they have bottom pair they are scared that you may have the set or an overpair and will not likely bet. If they do have the monster, they might donk bet and thus a call may be cheap for you if you decide to call. When the river hits, they still might bet it small if they have a strong hand. If they have nothing, they may check it down or make another donk bet. So yeah, I think because TT is only marginal by the river and you are out of position, you have to play it carefully. Frequently I find myself doing all the betting against a weak player, costing me money. So the lesson is as you stated, how can you save money in these situations. It's not always the pots you win, but the money you save when you don't have the best of it.
Bad players can and usually have unexpected hands at showdown. Just wait for your spot with a stronger hand and make them pay for it. They usually pay you off when you have hand, just don't pay them off when you are playing a marginal hand on a scary board.
Hey ItsHoliday, glad to see the blog community growing. Is this Ernie btw? In any case, great post. I agree with your analysis of the hand so can only reiterate what you said.
*Pre-flop, out of position against two very loose players definitely warrants larger raise. Your making them define their hand to some extent, partially blurred because of how loose they were but your also getting value while you likely have the best hand.
*On flop I agree with Chris continuation bet of 2/3 to 3/4 of pot is a must. Not just in this situation but in most. Again, your forcing villain to define their hand and creating a consistent continuation betting image for yourself. When you have a strong hand and are trying to get all-in by the river a 2/3 to 3/4 bet will help you get there.
*On turn you have to think about what hands your getting value from when you continue betting on a double-paired board. Ace high and a lower pair are really it.
Yeah, you may be giving villain a free card to outdraw you but this is a good situation to turn your hand into a bluff catcher and go into check-call mode. Another bonus like Chris said is bad players usually don't bet a lot when they have the nuts so your cutting your losses when behind. Depending on the size of villains turn and river bets and your assessment of his play you have to decide if you will continue check calling.
*You can argue purely on math for folding to turn shove, but you still have to take into consideration the villain himself. Is villain cable of turning a hand like ace high into bluff or does he usually only push with the goods???
Glad to know your doing well at the tables and welcome to blog!
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